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forrest
Post subject: Vittoria's Road Tire Selection in 2019 - Recommendations?  PostPosted: Mar 10, 2019 - 08:17 PM
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I am in the market for some new tires, have been riding on Vittoria tires for years, and they have been changing their product line-up a lot.

Sometime around 2011, I started riding on the Diamante Pro III tires. These were great, and I had a lot of confidence going up to the gaps every weekend and riding back to my car without incident. Their puncture resistance, grip, and general durability were great. I rode on these for about five years until I couldn't find them anymore. The closest thing that I was able to find afterward was the Open Corsa CX. These tires were similar and had a 45 degree tread instead of the crosshatch on the side. I can't name a whole lot of differences, but these were comparable tires and might have been in competing lines.

It looks as though Vittoria has switched yet again, and I don't see any real selection guide on their site. This is a typical problem in cycling. The same can be said about frames or wheels. If you don't know what you want, you typically aren't going to find any good information on the manufacturers' sites, and the next logical (?) step is to go vape some snake oil and look at the articles in the bike magazines.

I went with Vittoria several years ago because they really made a better tire than the rest for what I was trying to accomplish. The Michelins which I used to ride on had puncture and wear issues (probably picked too much of a race tire), and the Gatorskins which I had about ten years ago had a weird issue where the rubber degraded into the tubes. It looked like some materials incompatibility where the tube caused the rubber on the inner side of the tire to "melt" or vice versa, something that baby powder did not solve. I switched at that time to Michelin and continued using the same rims and same brand of tubes and never had that problem again.

Can someone suggest a good tire being manufactured in 2019 based on this? I want good traction, good puncture resistance, and I don't mind the tires weighing a few grams more. Extra rotational inertia has some advantages.

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TimH
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 11, 2019 - 01:28 AM
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I'm a big fan of Vittoria and ride them exclusively on my road bike.

Assuming you mean clinchers and not tubulars...

TLDR version is to look at the Rubino G+ or Rubino Pro G+ or see if you can find some of the older, discontinued Rubino Pro III tires. I saw the Rubino Pro III for something like $14 each a few months ago.

--

The three lines are Corsa at the top, Rubino in the middle and Zafiro at lowest tier. Corsa is going to have a cotton casing. Rubino and Zafiro are going to have a nylon casing. I don't know what happened to the Diamante.

There are up to five different versions within each line - Endurance, Control, Pro and Speed and a normal model without any extra name.
- The normal model is your everyday version of the tire.
- The "Endurance" will have an extra puncture protection layer and is going to be your long lasting model.
- The "Control" will have reinforced sidewall and a some extra tread supposedly for extra traction in cold/wet conditions - winter commuting or training.
- The "Pro" will have much higher TPI and be a more supple, grippy and lighter tire.
- The "Speed" will lack any extra puncture protection, have the highest TPI and be a very light, supple and grippy tire. It will also wear out the fastest.

I'm of the belief that tread does nothing for a road tire and are only there because it makes consumers think that a tire might have more traction. My comments are based on this belief. Others disagree and it has been debated endlessly.

Anyway, Ive ridden the normal Corsa tires which I found to be light and grippy but nervous and twitchy near the limits when pushed really, really hard in the turns. They are also very sticky and pick up bits of leaves, sand and small pebbles, and along with that, every piece of glass or metal so that they get lots of flats, like one every 250 miles. Forget running them in the city. I've determined that these are a true racing tire.

I used to ride the Rubino Pro III slick but they are discontinued and I tried the newer Rubino Pro which were fine.

Now I ride the Rubino Pro Speed. They are 50 grams lighter than the Corsa. I did have two pinch flats from hitting rocks and holes but no flats due to glass or debris, this in spite of the fact that they lack the extra puncture protection layer. They are fast, supple, grippy, forgiving and according to RollingResistance.com have some of the least rolling resitance of any tire they've tested. I'm not a powerful rider and am sensitive to extra rotational weight. With a light rim and light tube the Rubino Speed spin up fast and climb nicely. They wear very, very fast.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/

https://atlantabikerides.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/img_0578.jpg?w=616

https://atlantabikerides.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/vittoria.rubino.g.speed_.25.mm_.jpg?w=616

Back to what I said at first, I think the Rubino G+ or Rubino Pro G+ are going to be nice tires for you.


-Tim-

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forrest
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 11, 2019 - 03:53 AM
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This is exactly the kind of information that I was looking for! Thank you.

I agree on the tread. Look at a car tire's shape and aspect ratio, and then look at a road bike tire's profile. They are not comparable for many reasons. A motorcycle tire is somewhere in between, and look at how little treading it has.

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webgeek
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 11, 2019 - 09:26 PM
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Vittoria and Continental both make good tires.
Going from 23 > 25 made a big difference in the number of flats I was getting.
I've been riding Conties lately and very happy with them, running 28's on the GT.

I rode Huchinsons for awhile but they quit making the tire I was riding and their sidewalls were pretty fragile.
TimH is good at keeping up with the latest bike stuff and a good resource on topics like this.

The site that Tim linked is a good resource with recently updated content on the GP 5000s and Corsa.

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webgeek
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 11, 2019 - 09:38 PM
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Think I'm going to look at maybe getting some new wheels and bumping the GT up to 32s over the next year.

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therider
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 13, 2019 - 04:05 PM
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TimH wrote:


I'm of the belief that tread does nothing for a road tire and are only there because it makes consumers think that a tire might have more traction. My comments are based on this belief. Others disagree and it has been debated endlessly.


-Tim-


Can you expound on this further? I don't understand what you are saying but thought it was a very interesting comment.
 
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TimH
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 15, 2019 - 12:45 AM
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therider wrote:
Can you expound on this further? I don't understand what you are saying but thought it was a very interesting comment.


The purpose of tread is to move water out from under a tire so that the tire remains in contact with pavement.

Automobile tires are flat and a cushion of water can build up underneath when there is enough of it. Tread gives some place for the water to go so that the tire does not hydroplane. Race cars use slicks in the dry and only use tires with tread if it rains.

Bicycle tires are round or bullet shaped and push water to the side by virtue of their shape. Their relatively small size also means that the rough surface of the road acts as tread, giving the water some place to go. The result is that water never builds up under a slick road bike tire ridden on pavement.

Anyone who has ridden over a metal construction plate when wet knows how slippery they are. That's because the metal is smooth and therefor there is no place for the water to go. The same exact tire ridden the same way over pavement is not slippery. This illustrates how the rough surface of the road is enough "tread."

It's not 100% black and white, no tread all the time, etc. Sometimes a little tread can help but for the most part, it doesn't really do all that much. There is more to it - rubber temperature, compound, pressure - these are most important. The article linked below is very good.

https://www.velonews.com/2014/05/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq-tire-grip-wet-conditions_328827

Keep in mind that tread isn't the same as knobbies. Knobbies can act like tread at times and vice versa but knobbies are designed to provide bite on loose surfaces, not to channel water. Gravel, dirt, mud and such can benefit from some tread, more likely micro knobbies our outright lugs to dig in and resist shear forces.

Also keep in mind that some would argue in favor of tread and the debate can get like chain lube or politics. I ride a bit in the rain and tread has never done anything for me on 23 or 25 mm road bike tires.

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therider
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 15, 2019 - 12:32 PM
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Ok I gotcha, and I agree with you. I guess I misunderstood what you meant by "tread". Generally I think of tread as the rubber surface of the tire regardless of texture or pattern. What you wrote above sounds familiar, I read that years ago (you probably posted it before?? so maybe here is where I read it) and have also told people, with mixed reactions, that tread doesn't matter on bike tires. They are of the opinion that any loss of contact with the pavement or tire slippage is "hydroplaning" when it's not.
 
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